We are talking about the Girls and the Gays in our first Very Special Episode! In a lot of ways, the show was leaps and bounds ahead of mainstream American pop culture in regard to the LGBTQ community. From Jean to Clayton to Rambo the Caterer, we reminisce about our favorite queer-centric moments, examine why the show is still so pervasive in gay culture today, and express our deep appreciation that all four actresses walked the walk when it came to fighting for equal rights.
Below is the Enough Wicker podcast transcript for Bonus! The Golden Girls & Gay Pride: A Very Special Episode:
Hello, and welcome to Enough Wicker, a podcast where we don't believe in labels, but we're here to celebrate pride in both the gay community and the best TV show of all time, the Golden Girls. I'm Lauren.
And I'm Sarah.
And today we're tackling a very special episode for Pride Month: Gay Pride & the Golden Girls.
Yes, our very first very special episode.
Very very special. Double 'very'.
Yes, double 'very.' But yeah, so it's Pride Month. And I think that, you know, it's it's not really a secret that the Golden Girls really, really resonates in the gay community. And we're going to talk about all the reasons why we believe that to be.
Yeah, yeah, no, there's a huge following. I think before we get into the specific connection there, it's very important to acknowledge that we are currently, right now in June 2020, in the middle of what I hope is a an uprising that will result in some sort of -- some sort of racial justice in this country, and it seems silly to do a Pride episode without first acknowledging that pride was a riot, and it was in protest of police brutality, and it was started by black trans women largely.
So, big shout out to that. And you know, we are grateful to be witnessing this and we hope that real change comes. So, speaking of change. I think it also might be useful -- So, like you said, The Golden Girls is wildly popular in the gay community now. But it's really illuminating when you look at the context that they were in, in the 80s. I think it bolsters how bold they were, really, about about these issues like --
Even us watching like reruns in the 90s and the 2000s, like there are parts of it, that -- like, for instance, we were watching Sophia talk about gay marriage before, like, we actually had national gay marriage and it's like, like, to your point, even thinking about when this -- when these episodes were airing, this was a big deal to even touch on these subjects in the way that they did.
Decades before gay marriage! It wasn't like a couple years, like it's really, really ahead of its time, and so you think about it and like, first of all, it was only in 2003 that Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court case ruled that American laws prohibiting consensual homosexual acts were unconstitutional.
That's insane. 2003?
I know isn't that nuts? I know I learned a lot when I was doing my research.
Yes, but I mean even, like, something like HIV/AIDS -- like Reagan, obviously dropped the ball on HIV/AIDS like events offensive to you, you need to read a book, but so, he doesn't even say the word AIDS in public until 1985 and 72 Hours, the episode, you know, obviously Rose is waiting for her test results was in 1990. So that's only five years between the President of the United States, and this like very light-hearted sitcom about four old women, like, you know, like --
That's actually a really good point. Yeah, cuz it's like, it usually takes a some sort of controversial issue like a lot of years of watering down in the public consciousness, before it can actually be featured in a comedy television. Like, it's like, oh, we're talking about those laughs back in the day, but this was an active thing still happening and still really, really not being handled at all by our government. Also, talk about relevant today! Pandemics! I mean, oh my god, this episode is it's really it's, it's really depressing.
Ya know, it's a lot. It's like, ugh, nothing, nothing's better!
Nothing's better actually. Yeah, like, just like you said, just waiting for a really shitty Republican president who doesn't give a shit about pandemics or police brutality. Oh my god, anyway. Moving on! So, what what else? Like let's talk about -- so Reagan's response is obviously horrific and it is something HIV/AIDS is, because of the government response, because people are uneducated about it, there's a lot to it there that you have to actually, like, the you know, the misconception, I guess about how you get HIV/AIDS, you know, who gets it. All of that is handled really well, I think in the 72 Hours episode, and it's not, it wasn't even speed. It was like basically a public health episode, like it was filling the gap of what the government really wasn't doing, which is like talking about all these unanswered questions, which I thought was amazing.
Yeah, it's crazy how, um, you know, like -- I think I can't obviously know what it was like to grow up in a time where -- because I think, when I was in even like elementary school, and I guess, middle school, but like, you know, when you hear about HIV/AIDS, it's never really taught to you, at least from my experience as like, a bad person's disease because it was so much later, and we knew so much more about it. But it 100% was, until really, like, Ryan White emerged because people thought that gay people were gross. And so it was like, this is a gross disease that you get if you're gay, you know, and like -- to have that, if you were describing the Golden Girls to somebody, and you told them, you know, like, the characters and the plots, whatever you were like, oh, and also there's an HIV/AIDS episode, that person would be like, uh what?
That's right, that makes total sense.
But it's really like it's just another like nod to them for acknowledging it and, and also, I think, like you said, that episode does such a good job with the different attitudes, and like the anguish of waiting for your results, and Blanche like -- which I think makes sense -- like Blanche as the promiscuous one sort of defending like, you know, 'it's not a bad person disease' -- that line is so powerful. And that's really another piece, I think, of why the Golden Girls does such a good job with this stuff, is because that's really the only heavy queer-themed episode I can think of, like most of the other ones are pretty funny and light which like, I think, as a gay person to see that just being like woven into storylines and not being the only piece of the character of the episode was probably more important for me as a kid than I really than I am aware of even now.
That, yeah, that makes a lot of sense -- like everything with you know, with when you have Clayton, when you have Coco like that, just like the -- and Jean -- I mean, the the characters are just whole people in and of themselves, and there's not too much from, like, the parody sense. You know, in -- I mean, there are a few, you know, cheap laughs and we can talk about the caterer in a minute. Which, again, he's still so funny. Like, it's such a great comic relief.
'Butt out, Rambo!' But even still, like the -- you know, that's not what -- well, we're going back to like talking about setting the time here, right? Like, gay people are sort of in the media-ish, you know, like people understand, like, what being gay means, to your point, like there is like 'this is a dirty subculture' in a lot of the, you know, sort of public consciousness. But I mean, when was like the first -- when do we see like out gay people on television? Was there any like, I mean, I think you did your research and you said like the first lesbian kiss on TV was in 1991?
1991 on... LA Law! Which is crazy! I've also been spreading misinformation for years, because I've always claimed that the first lesbian kiss on TV it was on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (Hey, Gina!) But I think, you know, like, I think the first kiss in 1991 and, you know, like, every single time there was like a same sex interaction like, it was a huge deal. It was like, right, you know, even --
It was a very special episode.
Exactly. Exactly. I even remember on Will & Grace, when Will and Jack were gonna kiss for the first time. It was non romantic. It was like a whatever, but --
It was a comedy, like, kiss.
Exactly, yeah. But it was a huge deal. And so, you know, there's no like, physical affection on the Golden Girls that I can recall. But like even to just have these storylines, and again, like, have them it's not -- even like when Jean comes like, the main storyline isn't that she's a lesbian, right? It's like she's in love with Rose, which is like a bigger problem and like, they just do such a good job with that.
Yeah, you're right. Actually, they do -- I would say that maybe the closest that in terms of anything sexual happening like with a gay character on the Golden Girls, is, like, the whole, 'will Jean sleep in the same bed with Rose?'
Right, right? Like that's what -- that's like that's kind of like a tense moment. And again
That's huge. And I actually yeah, we could talk about more about that in our episode, Isn't It Romantic? But, you know, that was a question, of whether or not she would actually get into bed with her, like, when they were filming it, which was kind of an interesting one. But like, from a respectful standpoint, I think it really works for the Jean character, because that's exactly what she'd do. She wouldn't want to make Rose uncomfortable, and it's sort of like, again, to your earlier point, it's not just -- she's just like this, like gay pawn.
Like she has she has a whole personality. She is the quote unquote straight woman from a comedy sense in that episode, because, you know, she's pretty just like, you know, just casual and chill, but I mean, it's, it's really cool. And the same thing too, -- it's like the Clayton episodes: One where he comes out and two where he actually is going to get married. It's it's really like -- he's already done his growth and his personal work and, like, coming out and everything sort of behind the scenes, and the episodes are largely about Blanche and other family's acceptance, and the other girls like bring him along, which is really cool, too, right? It's not like focusing on his story, it's like only about him, it's like no like, hello it's teaching straight people that this is what happens, and that you have to understand. You know, like, what, what it really means for you to interact with gay family members, etc. So again, it was sort of like a public health notice, as something that wouldn't be necessarily a full topic today, but it was really really important to show that at the time.
Yeah, and I think on Clayton, like, so Scared Straight is in season four and then Sister of the Bride is in season six, which I think is also really impressive, that the show doesn't it doesn't do like one gay episode, and it's like, okay, we did it like -- we've covered it.
Yeah, they didn't like check it off. Oh, thank God.
And Clayton is really the only one who I feel like, you know, the story is both about, right, like him coming out, and then also him wanting to get married. But you're right, like it's about Blanche's reaction. And I think it does a really good job, especially at the time, especially for somebody like Clayton, who comes from like, a super ,like, Baptist Southern family, you know, like --
Who was married to a woman. I mean, you know.
Right. So like, he tells her and then, presumably, like, a year or two later, like, he comes back and they have that whole conversation about like, what, you know, Dorothy, I think, asked Blanche, like, if she has a problem with him being gay or something like that. She's like, 'I don't mind him being gay, but I just don't like him dating men' or whatever it is.
'There have to be homosexuals who date women.'
'Yeah, they're called lesbians.'
But no, exactly. I'm like, he has that line where he's like, 'What did you mean when you said you accepted me?' like, 'Did you mean as long as I was celibate?' I mean, it was -- it's pretty pointed. And it's really, again, just thinking about, at the time of like, it's like, this is not some surface-level acceptance, right? This is like, this is who I am. And you have to accept all of me, right? Like, this is me. They're just really, really powerful episodes, but again, in centering like the reaction of the girls and how they have to deal with it, like Clayton is unapologetic to be like, you know, 'Doug's my family now. And he accepts me. So like, if you can't, goodbye.' It's pretty huge. Instead of like, like a gay person sort of begging for acceptance from their family, right? It's like to your point, whole characters and it's, it's really important, and again, it flips it around, so it's like Blanche is like, I don't want to lose him. Yeah, I have to be the one to sort of, quote unquote, meet him halfway.
Yeah, no, it's it's great. And I think also like, even when Clayton and Rose, in the first episode, that Clayton's in, when they're sitting and she's like, trying to find his type, Rose is like, 'he's a man and you're a man!' And they, you know, like she's coming to this realization and it makes sense for her character, but like, she's so good and sweet. And she's like, oh, wow, like, 'Are you thinking of telling Blanche?' And like, you know, whatever. And then there's like that whole bizarre thing that like --
I know she takes the hit, though -- like, she does a great job to protect him. Yeah.
But it's just like another another note of, like, I think also, they this show is so good about capturing, like, really, the different ways in which people react to it -- which is like, like Dorothy and Jean like, it seems to not be a thing at all, which I think is, is again, like how most gay people live most of their lives, like you're not constantly coming out. (Thank God.) Um, so it's, it's pretty progressive in that way. Um, there are a couple times where I feel like we've talked about sort of, like transphobic instances on this show and like, it's a long time ago, I think things were really different, but I do -- it would be remiss not to mention that. Like there's a couple like Gil Kessler -- so I feel like that's an example, like, they don't really make a caricature out of it for most of it?
Right. It's actually it's -- it's interesting to think about that one because, yeah, it's not done the best, but like also it's really hard to pick a 1980s televsion show that's better. But the joke is largely around Sophia having this hunch that like something is like, in this political sphere, right, like the quote unquote amiss or different, and it's kind of interesting like, you know, like they they could have gone so many directions with that episode where I think where, I couldn't even stomach watching it again, right? Like this isn't, you know, Ace Ventura.
Sorry, Denis. I know it's your favorite movie.
I know, sorry, buddy, it's pretty bad.
I can't imagine -- it's like intertwined with the whole thing. But also, like from, you know, like a cross-dressing perspective, right, and the confusion over, like, where that comes from and all that stuff, like that's handled so much with Phil. And it's, again, like you know it's strewn about in so many other episodes and even, you know, it's -- it's always this off color type of remark, but I feel like in Ebbtide's Revenge, when it's Phil's funeral -- spoiler alert if you haven't watched the series, sorry!
You never meet him but he dies. That, you know like Angela, aka Big Sally, really, you know, like, again, it's the episode is centered around Sophia struggling with it, and thinking that it's embarrassing, and thinking that she did something wrong, and you know she's so caught up in, like, literally her self-centered emotions, because it's all -- it's really about embarrassment, right? And like his wife is sitting here being like, he was an amazing man, he was great man, he was a great husband, he was a great father -- like what is the fucking problem? You know, it's just like -- she really puts it into context. And you know, Sophia somewhat gets there at the end, and I, again, I think it's the same sort of pattern with Clayton, just like, these men, these women are who they are, and it's about this other straight society that is so ingrained in, like, how you should be, coming to terms with people that are different and, again, like very much like putting it out there that they are not bad people in the slightest. Clayton just wants to marry the man he loves, just like Blanche did. You know? Like Phil was a wonderful husband, person, and father, and, like, he just happened to like wearing dresses, you know? I mean, it's like all of that kind of stuff i think is, like, for the most part, they they do get it right.
Yeah. And Phil is particularly interesting, because his sexuality is sort of ambiguous, but like he was with Big Sally for such a long time. You know, like he obviously like loved her, but more so then his sexual orientation. I feel like he really challenges, like, masculinity and this idea -- I mean, obviously, like it's an extreme case, to like wear women's clothes, but like this idea that like, men are men and women are women and like, if you step over that line at all, you're like, you know ... and I think that's a very, still today, like people have that belief -- which is insane to me -- but like, especially in the 80s, you know, an Italian immigrant who's in HER 80s like -- it's not hard to believe that Sophia would have trouble like with any blurring of gender lines, you know? And I feel like it's really, again, like so impressive that they were able to touch on that without making fun of it.
Yeah, exactly. But I love the -- I love the fact that we constantly hear about how, you know, Phil is married to a woman, because again like it -- like you said -- it challenges, like, even today I don't think they do anything that that complex. Having like a probably like a mostly straight man or straight man cuz I don't think there actually is any you know really, anything, talking about his sexual orientation that much, right? I mean like compared to other characters. But yeah i mean i think it's just like -- he like, you know at the funeral, too, like he has his like three poker buddies --
Wow, I forgot about that!
Yeah, it's like supposed to be -- they're like, 'oh I can't believe they showed up, oh my god' and everyone's like oh my gosh -- and Blanche is like, just like you know, he's having an affair, it's terrible -- again like a traditional straight man thing right, Uh, cheating on the wife, blah blah blah. No, it just turns out that it's three other dude that also love to dress in drag, and, like, it's just it's amazing. I really love that they they play with that.
Yeah, no, I think it's great. And you don't like sort of -- it's related in a way, but later on, Goodbye, Mr. Gordon, is the one --- first of all so fucking funny. I recently watched it again to prepare for this and I was laughing the whole time.
So great! 'We don't believe in labels.'
So good, but that's when, obviously, Dorothy and Blanche -- first of all, Rose signs them up for a TV show about lesbians, which is pretty fair to be a little mad about that -- and then you know Blanche -- there's just so many funny lines -- and Blanche, she's like, 'every man I know was watching this show. This live show about lesbian lovers of Miami'. But I think like, you know, they're on the show with the image consultants and blah blah blah --
But the big part, I think, that you know, wins them, like a gold star for me, is that at the -- towards the end, when Blanche is talking to Rose, and they're kind of mad at her for like putting them on the show, she's like, 'I don't mind being labeled a lesbian, but I'm not, and now I can't get a date' and it's like, that's it, right? Like that's what all straight people I feel like miss or whatever. You think about middle school when everybody would say like, 'Oh, that's gay.'
Oh my god, we said that so much.
So, no and like, it's just, that's it. Like, it doesn't matter. Like it's not you're not lesser if you're labeled gay or queer, you know anything, but like, if you're not, you don't want to be, because you do want to date people and I feel like that.
Yeah, it's like a practical function.
Yeah, that's what I mean -- that's like a huge thing for her to say.
I'm so sorry.
That's, yeah, you're right. And it really gets at the heart of just, like, if you're fully accepting, and you're like, if you really sit with your feelings of like, why you're uncomfortable about it and -- you know, like you, you work through it and you're just like, no, the only reason is this is why I'm on the television program. Well, what that episode doesn't do well is that Blanche gives in to that horrific guy thinks he can turn a lesbian. I'm not sure, like, what exact message they were sending about this, except that Blanche really wanted to bone this terrible guy. But still, but you're right -- that is an extremely powerful line because it's just again, it's just regular. It's regular life. That's all it is. I'm just speaking from a practical standpoint --doesn't matter. I mean, it's yeah. And Danny Thomas is a lesbian. It's all okay.
Lesbian. Lesbian. Lesbian?
Can we can we talk about, 'Excuse me for living, Anita Bryant'?
Because I feel like he is -- that caterer is just, he's like the epitome of flamboyance and like a stereotype. And just, like, with like body language and everything like that, 'Butt out, Rambo'
And his ponytail!
But I also think like, again, they're not adding gratuitous, like, stereotypically flamboyant characters without it being so fucking funny. Like that guy. Like, again, we talk about this all the time, you know, if you're a regular listener that like there are so many, just like tiny little, like, you know, characters that pop in and out for just like an episode, or maybe even just an episode or two, for a few minutes that really just, like, steal the show. And it's hard to steal the show with these four ladies, as we all know. And it's a pretty big deal. But that's like one of those sort of like mini characters that stands out. It's just like, it's perfect that they never bring him back, because it'd be overdone, but I just I love that entire scene because he takes charge.
Yeah, and he's so he's so comfortable with himself, I feel like which is why it works. And it's not like a you know, like, obviously they didn't get -- they didn't invent the trope of the gay caterer like we've all met them in real life. But he's so -- he's so great. And he stands up to Dorothy, who is being ridiculous in that scene. So I feel like it -- it's nice that he plays sort of like the, the one who like brings her to the light of like you're being so silly. You know, like?
No, yeah, you're right. He actually is a pivotal moment in terms of that scene. 'If you say something smart, I'll slap you silly.' Also Anita Bryant is brought up a lot.
I know! I was like, so in the 'Miami is Nice' songwriting contest. They say that they told -- Dorothy says they made them get out of the way when they took the winner's picture with Anita Bryant. And it's like, Oh, you guys wouldn't really want -- like in real life, especially, too, like these girls were Dorothy -- or Bea Arthur, I should call her -- you know, supported the Ali Forney Center and Rue McClanahan appeared at all these fundraisers, and Estelle Getty, like flat-out refused to do gay,bashing jokes. And Betty White is you know, still an activist for the LGBTQ community. So like, for these girls to be saying, like, 'oh, I wish I could see Anita Bryant,' even at the time, like, you know, they were like, all right, I guess we'll do this.
Yeah, that's kind of interesting. Again, like thinking about the writers, like where you're just like, well, I'm reading it this way. But maybe that was early, that's only second season.
Right, that's what I was thinking, maybe it was before -- she was just like a beauty queen and nobody had heard her opinions on gay people yet, which is ... who cares?!
Yeah. Which is why they -- which is why they gave the caterer that line, you know? Yeah, later on they had to make it right, for their Anita Bryant references. You're so right about all of these women in real life really being, you know, supporters of the gay community and activists and really and using their power for good -- their power and the money, you know? And it's kind of, it's really heartening to see that that is also reflected in the show, and like we said, like, I'm sure that lines like that were groaned at / in later seasons been like, guys we're a powerhousem like we can't -- we're not going to write anything that we're not comfortable with. Like you said, Estelle Getty said she wouldn't do gay bashing jokes and like, everything was made to, you know, kind of align with these these ladies' values, which is so powerful.
Yeah, no, I definitely think that really that it matters that they walk the walk. And I think that that's also part of the reason, like, circling back to where we started, like, that's a reason that the Golden Girls was so pervasive in queer culture, and like, you know, like you think about the drag show and like the fashion and like, the merchandise we have now like -- there's so many elements of the two things like intersecting and and you know, like that -- I just can't even get over like that they're so -- I think I think there's probably more than one but like, you know, the very famous drag show that still is running well, yeah, it's all you know, parody of of the girls.
Oh, yeah. Well, the first one was 2003. The same year that --
Yeah, it's wild, same year. Supreme Court said, 'gay people are legal.'
Wow, that really puts it into context. Actually, that kind of blew my mind a bit. But 2003, it opened -- Golden Girls Live! opened in New York, and then was promptly shut down by Lifetime. But it clearly has won out, and is now all over the country. And I mean, it's just that -- that aspect alone, because it's like you have an ensemble of four women. You have, as you mentioned, the fashion on the show is like -- it's just in and of itself -- just a thing of beauty, especially representing the 80s and like just these high collars and tuxedo shirts and just like --
Bring it back!
Yeah, all of it is incredible. as Rue McClanahan knew because she wrote into her contract that she was keeping all of her outfits and jewelry that they have in the show. But yeah, you have that perfect storm of of sort of those two, like you know, superficial things of just being able to put together a drag show, but like, to your point, of like, because it was so progressive for its time, that's largely the reason that it holds up today. We're not talking about a lot of episodes that like don't handle these topics well -- it was so progressive for its time that it actually matches with quote unquote, where we're at now, and still where we need to go in life, you know? So, I feel like for just, from a gay rights standpoint, like, because it was so relevant back then that has that longevity where it's recognized, and obviously there's so many, you know, just in the gay community and outside of it, too, like The Golden Girls is constantly being rediscovered by you know, even kids today watching you know, ancient television.
On Hulu and whatnot and clips are floating around the internet, like you said, That's why the merchants there and that's why I think like even Target makes a Pride shirt. It's become so ubiquitous in the community.
It really has. And wait, just correct me if I'm wrong, but your entire family went to see the Golden Girls drag show, correct?
Well, what happened was, as you know, been a fan for a long time. I was at NYU in 2003. I was walking through the West Village one day on my way to class and I did like -- literally I still remember -- I did this comical thing as I stepped past Rose's Turn, which you know like is this -- it was this wonderful little tiny, like, like -- literally tiny -- like 'could not have you know more than two people in there in Coronavirus time' spot that was you know, made like, basically made for these off off off off Broadway shows and like, you know, just like little collaborative things in the West Village, which, you know, unfortunately there's not any place like that anymore. Unless it's like someone's apartment --
Yeah, like your house.
They literally -- I had stepped past it, and then stepped back because they had a big Golden Girls picture on the front door. Like it was like, you know, photocopied, and I couldn't believe that I was like Golden Girls drag is like an absolute perfect combination. So of course, I went with a friend of mine, and I won the trivia contest
And the prize actually was a burned CD -- because remember this is 2003 --with like handwriting on it that was of them recording via tape cassette recorder off the television, all of the songs in the Golden Girls -- so like, you know, the Miami is Nice song -- Miami, You've Got Style as well as Miami is Nice. You know, that little short clip.
You know the, Thanks for the Medicare song, literally all of it. So I loved it so much that I, you know, my my mother who has also watched The Golden Girls with me, too. I basically made, yeah, her and my father, my brother. My brother was in high school, and of course, like, you know, Blanche was flirting with him so much and he was embarrassed. It was wonderful. There's definitely a photo of my parents with all the Golden Girls in the West Village and it was just wonderful. It was awesome.
Yeah, follow us on Instagram, if you want to see that.
Yeah, I love it. Enough Wicker! But uh, yeah. I just I I mean it's everything about that show -- and I love that it continues today -- I've also been in Portland and like like you said there's ones in every single, you know, city around the country of just having that perfect combination -- just like the pure love of the show but it's so intertwined with gay culture that like a lot of them -- actually Rose's Turn, they did do 'Isn't it Romantic?' They recreated that episode, which was really good, but even like other other shows, they just pick not totally non-gay episodes and just play it you know, quote unquote play it straight.
But like, it's just it's a really perfect way to do an homage to the show in general, but also having like -- it basically, if you just say we're going to do Golden Girls in drag, I feel like people who would never go to a drag show otherwise, who enjoy the Golden Girls, have like attended those shows, and it just interest people closer along to understand more inner workings of the gay community. And of course like nowadays, like everybody watches Drag Race. It's even more intertwined with people, like, going to these shows, but I just think it's it's such a cool homage to do that really touches on all the points that we've just talked about.
Definitely. And I think even like, speaking of Drag Race, have been watching like all 12 seasons over the course of like, six weeks -- it's fine, it's quarantine, whatever. But, but what I was gonna say is like, it's really, particularly Dorothy, Dorothy is one that comes up a lot as just, like, a reference that they assume everyone gets and like, I think 95% of the drag queens on the show and like the, you know, like everyone does know her. And even if they don't, like, know her intimately, they're aware of her, but most of them, I think, know her intimately. And I think like, it's because of what you were just saying like, a lot of the times it might be somebody's first intro to drag, and maybe that person will end up being a drag queen or maybe it's somebody first intro into, like, going into a gay bar, you know? Like, I think the -- that the show does that, and that the characters do that, by itself is like a huge nod.
But I think it's all sort of wrapped up with the drag queens and with the -- with the girls themselves and and all of it is like, it all comes back to that central point that we've brought up a couple times of, like, a chosen family, which is so important in the queer community and I, I, I think that straight family members and straight friends even who are accepting, like -- that's really, really important and, you know, I wouldn't ever downplay the weight of that -- but I think that coming out is a traumatic thing regardless of how it goes and it's, it makes you be more vulnerable than, lik, I personally ever like to be and would never want to be again. So I think to have people -- I'm never doing it again! This is like coming out for everyone. But, you know, I think to have people, friends, and partners and things like that who have also gone through that does that create this sense of a bond that isn't really, in my experience, anyway, like hasn't really been replicated or duplicated, anyway. So I think the concept that you could find people who aren't blood related to you who become closer, in some instances, then your blood relatives, or at least as close, like, that's really comforting. I think, again, like, I feel like I didn't realize I was, you know, taking in any of this when I was watching the show as a kid, but I must have been. Like, wow, that's really nice, that you will be able to find friends who become your family, in a way that is more than just like, 'Oh, yeah, we talked about everything.' You know? Like, it's that unspoken level of closeness that I feel like, a lot of gay people, especially when you're figuring it out, like are like, am I ever gonna have that? And to see it, especially like, older, which I feel like is when you're like, 'Oh my god, am I gonna be like alone in my 60s?' you know, like, it's really, it's super comforting.
Yeah, no, that's such a huge point. That's' like' chosen family like you said, it's so relevant to anyone and like hopeful to anyone who doesn't feel like, you know, they actually have that support or like you said, when you're older and, like, in life and things have changed, but like, that's obviously the whole premise of the Golden Girls, right? Like you could recreate, whatever, whatever you want for your own life. And it can be with people who aren't your blood relatives. But like you said, I mean, that's, that's the most powerful thing and in so many ways, for the queer community, and especially when it was, you know, you were so much less accepted, like you said, You have such a loving family who's been amazing, but like, they still don't have that exact same shared experience. And it's such -- it's such a cool thing to have that model in the show whether or not they were really even thinking of how relevant it was back in the day when they were writing it, you know? That's pretty amazing.
Yeah, I feel like we really knocked this one out of the park.
Yeah, I think we did, too! Fantastic. So well, thanks for joining and as Lauren said, you know, if you can --we know we're speaking right now in Pride Month in 2020, and there's an awful lot going on. So if you're able, please support Black Lives Matter and other Black-owned businesses, defund the police, and please, you know, try to create the society that the Golden Girls would have wanted us to have in 2020.
Do it for Betty White's sake, for chrissakes. All right, join us next time for our regularly-scheduled episodes. Bye bye!