In this episode, we break down the 16th episode of The Golden Girls, The Truth Will Out. Rose is forced to have a tough conversation with her daughter Kirsten about her will, which is made more difficult by Kirsten's hard-to-place accent. Plus, we explain what a dickie is and advocate for more girls to go to Space Camp for themselves!
Below is the Enough Wicker podcast transcript for Episode 16: Estate Papers, Dickies, and A Snack You Can Panel Your Den With, analyzing The Golden Girls Season 1 episode, The Truth Will Out :
Lauren 0:01
Hello and welcome to Enough Wicker, a podcast where we never tell a single white lie as we chat about our favorite show, The Golden Girls. I'm Lauren.
Sarah 0:09
And I'm Sarah.
Lauren 0:10
And today we're tackling the 16th episode in the series, The Truth Will Out.
Sarah 0:15
Ah, yes. This one is a wacky one. I don't think I watch it very often as part of the first season, you know, rigmarole here, but I do enjoy it. I think it is interesting because it has intrigue because you, as the viewer, really don't know where she's gonna go with this whole, like, I'm worried about my will -- like, I think they do a very good job of building it up and then it turns out, you know, as Blanche says, you know, begrudgingly, 'so Charlie was a nice guy.' That was the big secret.
Lauren 0:50
Yeah, lacks the intrigue of the Duncan Osgood case.
Sarah 0:55
Exactly. No, I like that bit. That's my favorite part of this episode.
Lauren 1:02
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's fine. I that's that's a fair case. Before I started this one, I wrote that I think when I remember this one, it's very weird and it's kind of like flat.
Sarah 1:17
It's weird.
Lauren 1:18
Yeah, there are a couple really, really funny moments. And one of those is Rose's daughter Kirsten and her granddaughter Charlie are coming to go over the estate papers with Rose, which we will talk about because they decide to do it -- they decide to go over the will during a time when they're going to get dessert for everyone else. They just get sidetracked and accidentally start reviewing the will -- it's very bizarre.
Sarah 1:46
Also backing up even further, even if it was an 'estate size,' like don't call them the estate papers. It's the will. We'll talk about it in a minute and the actress.
Lauren 2:02
But so we have to talk about -- so Rose is going over her plans for what they're going to do when Kirsten and Charlie get there, and you know, she's excited because Charlie's never been to Miami. And so she's going over all of the things they're going to do and there's a very special attachment to this line. So I just want to make sure everyone realizes this is very, very important.
Sarah 2:26
All 12 of you.
Lauren 2:30
Oh yeah, so she's going over all of the things they're gonna do. And she's like, Oh, I thought we would -- Rose is saying -- I thought we would go to SeaWorld and Gator World and Reptile World and Parrot Village and Dorothy just goes WHAT, the parrots don't get a world?! That's outrageous! And the way that Bea Arthur delivers the 'what' -- is so fucking funny.
Sarah 2:53
It's like a squawk. It's like a parrot squawk.
Lauren 2:55
She's shocked. She is just like, and it's so funny. And it's like -- they never miss a beat.
Sarah 3:02
No, I know seriously, but the interesting -- like with the undercurrent of mocking, of course, underneath which is just like this perfect relationship. I'm just like, oh my god, like why are you droning on? You don't have to say 'world' after every fucking thing, you know? Like she kind of interrupts her own thought. It's fantastic.
Lauren 3:18
Yeah, because she wasn't actually asking for, like, their itinerary, she was just like, so what are you guys doing? And then you know, Rose proceeds to tell her every place they're gonna visit. But true fans of the podcast will know --
Sarah 3:29
Longtime listeners!
Lauren 3:32
Longtime listeners will know that 'Parrot Village' was the name of our team when we came in third during the biggest outrage in trivia history.
Sarah Royal 3:42
Ugh!
Lauren 3:43
Why do they even make bronze medals? I don't know.
Sarah
Oh, that's painful. Moving on.
Lauren 3:50
Moving on.
Sarah 3:51
So Rose is making 'a snack you can panel your den with,' which like anything that has molasses in it is just gonna be that, and I can almost taste like what that log tastes like with molasses, because that just sounds awful, even as a person who likes sweet things,
Lauren 4:13
Makes my teeth hurt!
Sarah 4:20
But also just they introduce the B story right away, which is, again, to your point, it's flat, it's like the B story is nothing -- it's just they're following a story and I think that also just sets up some good lines for the whole thing I was talking about, where there's a little bit of intrigue as to, like, what the secret is. But talking about the Duncan Osgood case and -- damn it, professionalism out the window -- in the Duncan Osgood case, like, they're setting it up and Blanche is talking about how he's found underneath or no, I'm sorry. Wait, what? What is it again?
Lauren 5:03
He was clutching -- somebody was clutching his Dickey at the bottom of the lake.
Sarah
His wife was clutching his Dickey in her hand. 'Well, that certainly puts her at the scene of the crime.' And it's like, it's a third-grade joke. And like, also, when I was watching this, like, way back, I had no fucking idea what a Dickey was. Of course, because why would I? Because I'm not -- I'm born in the 80s, I'm not from before then. And also for people listening who don't know what a Dickey is. It is a like shirt collar and front-like top piece of your blouse that you basically put under a jacket so you don't have to have the encumbrance of an entire shirt. I just don't understand. But anyway, just played here, where they're literally making a penis joke, it is -- I love it. I think it's awesome. It just slides right in there, but it fits. It fits so well.
Lauren 5:58
Yeah, and Bea Arthur has like dead eye contact when she makes that. Um, and it's funny that you said that you remember watching and not knowing what a Dickey is because I similarly didn't, and I remember, um, I must have been watching, like, I was really hung up on this like, after I figured it out like I was like, it's a part shirt? What is that? But you've ever seen the Disney movie Peter Pan -- the dad is wearing a Dickey. So if you need a visual, watch it.
Sarah
You're right! And it like curls up. Yeah, in the front. Yeah, you're right. That's right. I can see that scene. Also the dad's a dick.
Lauren 6:33
Mm hmm. Probably like Duncan Osgood!
Sarah 6:37
For real. Anyway, I just love that -- so Blanche is so into the drama, right? And it's perfect for her because she loves drama. She's just, like, so into following this, but she also gets a little intense with like, you know, siccing the death penalty on these people already. Like she just seems -- she needs to take a media literacy class and like, just cool her jets a little bit. It's like you can't believe everything you read in the papers, you know, and like innocent till proven guilty, Blanche? Come on now.
Lauren 7:06
Yeah, she loves to just assign the death penalty to anybody. She's like George W. Bush. She's like, you this guy maybe killed this person, this person maybe stole my jewels -- she's very liberal with her use of capital punishment. But I love it. Similar to or I guess like in the same vein of Blanche loving the drama of Duncan Osgood case, that carries through, because at the very end of the episode when Rose and Kirsten are gonna have the super-intimate conversation about Charlie and the estate, Dorothy gets up and she's like, 'I don't think we all need to be here' and Blanche is like, 'you're right, bye Dorothy' -- like she's very invested in all of the drama of the situation. But also Blanche -- so when Rose is talking about Kirsten and Charlie coming, she says she's a little bit nervous and everybody's sort of like, oh, why are you nervous? But it just again goes back to their minds being completely wiped, because Blanche just a few episodes ago was freaking out about, one, Virginia coming, but also when David was coming, she was very nervous!
Sarah 8:12
Absolutely, you're right! I love like the visual of like a Men In Black, like, mind wipe -- I've never lived this before, you're nervous about family?
Lauren 8:25
But in contrast to that, they do nail, finally, they nail down the kitchen setup, there's three chairs at the table and there's the higher chair that comes over. So things are starting to fall into place a little bit in this one, you know, even though the --
Sarah 8:45
Good note, I didn't really recognize that.
Lauren 8:47
Mm hmm. The plot's kind of weird, but the set is coming together at least.
Sarah 8:51
Yeah. And they also, like, they acknowledge again from the past 'family is staying' the whole, you know, Sophia stays with Dorothy when there's family in town, right? Sophia's just like, 'lay off the broccoli at dinner, huh?' It's just such a great like, it's comes right after the dick joke, there's a fart joke, which is awesome. But just the way she says 'huh' -- it's a perfect, again, like when they switch from 'mom' to 'ma' and they're just nailing like the Italian New Yorker in her.
Lauren 9:24
Yeah another time they do that is when Sophia goes off on her crazy story about how she knows Frank Sinatra. And she comes back and then they're like, oh, we're talking about Rose's daughter and Sophia is like, 'well try to stay on the subject then.'
Sarah 9:37
Yeah, that's right. It's perfect. It's like literally life with an old lady. It's so good.
Lauren 9:46
Yeah. And so, um, so that's all sort of, you know, between the regular 'core four,' if you will.
Sarah 9:55
I will.
Lauren 9:55
Yeah. Um, so when Kirsten walks in -- this is another thing that's like so weird -- is she walks in and immediately greets all the women and brings her own rice crispy brown sugar molasses log for them. But right away, before she even puts her suitcases away, she's like, oh, I knew I had to come review the estate papers, so great visit. It's like, you wouldn't walk into someone's house and be like, 'oh, I'm just here to review the will but I'm so excited to be in Miami.' Just say hello.
Sarah 10:25
Seriously, haha. Just say hello, man. Yeah, I think we probably both agree --I actually noted in this episode, watching it as a scholar, that I think the actress playing Kirsten is actually a very good actress. Like she hits a lot of these notes and like the way that she delivers her lines, they work very well and there's emotional pieces through it, yada yada. But, like, the way she chooses to play her, and the way the character is written is just kind of douchey. And she also does have like a kind of a weird accent as we were talking about last episode with Mrs. Beatty. Like what -- what is that?
Lauren 11:01
Yeah, I maybe it's like stage projecting and annunciation or something. But yes, it is. It's very strange. Like you're from Minnesota.
Sarah 11:11
Yeah, exactly! Man, you grew up on a farm and Rose was your mom. So like, come on, you gotta be a little just tame -- just tamp it down a little bit.
Lauren 11:20
Before we get into like the real, like, you know, the meat of this story, I just want to point out that there's another thing that Donald Trump has taken away from me, which is that there's a scene where the Star Spangled Banner comes on and Rose is just listening to it on the radio, and she stands up and puts her hand over her heart. And that always used to make me laugh so much. And it it still did this time, but I couldn't not think of like MAGA people who you know, like, 'stand for the flag.' Like, I just feel like it's so frustrating. Ugh.
Sarah 11:52
But -- the thing that's interesting, I have a different take on that -- because I was actually thinking about my father as a little boy, because he was telling me about this, this is the thing that we didn't experience. This is the conclusion of the broadcast day, which like, hey, kids listening, there wasn't 24-hour programming. Like, it would literally end, they would play the Star Spangled Banner, and then they would open it back up in the morning. And my dad tells me about when he was little, he would wake up, like, the first thing in the morning -- and not for the radio, but for the TV, but same same, like they would always have, you know, broadcasts would start again -- and he would you know, have the Star Spangled Banner and be like, standing there as a kid. I think he maybe put his hand over his heart? I'm not quite sure, I'll have to you know -- Dad, when you get to this, you know, get to listen to this episode finally, get back to me. But um, but it's just very cute of like a little boy just being like, all right, this is the beginning, like we just have this like American programming and then all of a sudden, you know, like Lone Ranger starts some other terrible, terrible American cartoon. But yeah, there is a degree of patriotism there, but I just thought it was such a funny, like, oh man, when do you ever hear about this conclusion of the broadcast day? Forever. You know, I mean, that's like so foreign to me.
Lauren 13:11
It is funny and it is very wholesome. And it's very in line with like, what I imagine like her character would do. Um, it's funny you said that also.
Sarah 13:19
It smarts a little.
Lauren 13:20
I remember my mom making us like, watch the Star Spangled Banner before a sports event. So very funny.
Sarah 13:31
Hi Lauren's mom!
Lauren 13:34
So Kirsten is here. And, you know, like, we've already like established that she's here to go over the estate papers. But also, Charlie is there to go to space camp. Which first of all, also, Mom, if you're listening don't think I've forgotten about the time I wanted to go to space camp so bad, and I never went, and I could be in the space station right now!
Sarah 13:58
Yeah, and see you actually were trying to make some feminine STEM progress, right? Not like fucking Charlie, who just wants to meet boys who want to be astronauts? Get the hell out of here.
Lauren 14:08
Yeah, but Blanche does, too!
Sarah 14:09
It's a very cute Blanche line. I know. I know. It sets up the Blanche line, but that always pissed me off as a kid, and as a teen, and as now. Watching this entire episode. I hate that line.
Lauren 14:19
Yeah, I remember as a kid being like, girl, you could be an astronaut Even then, you know. Try to be better.
Sarah 14:26
Absolutely. Absolutely. There actually, I was reading an interview with like talking about Bea Arthur saying that, when I was a child, I used to question why a woman took her husband's name, which I thought was awesome. It's like she was talking about how when she was, you know, a little girl like she was already a feminist and didn't even know it. And I felt the same way about this, of just, like you -- I didn't beg my parents to space camp but I certainly knew about it. And I certainly wanted to go for me, goddamn it, you know? Not the smelly boys that were gonna be there, too. Come on.
Lauren
Yeah, this show was so -- I mean, we are you know, this continues to be a running theme, but this show is so pivotal, I think, in really forming my own feminism and yours, too, definitely, and just so many people's, which is so great. But okay, so they basically are reviewing these estate papers, right, and Kirsten is like, this isn't the right amount of money and blah blah blah.
Sarah
And to your point they're talking about it as they're waiting for dessert. Like they're still out on the lanai.
Lauren 15:37
But Kirsten's reaction is really mean like she gets so mad and the verbiage she uses is like, 'you managed to piddle away the fortune that daddy built' --
Sarah 15:51
'That took a lifetime to build'
Lauren 15:53
And also, like, girl, he was a mid-level insurance salesman. I don't know what you think he made.
Sarah 15:58
Yeah, you fell for this? Also, can we back up and talk about how Rose is like, 'I know how much you like my sapphire necklace, but I thought you'd get more use of the pearl earrings.' And you're like, one, Kirsten you're getting some fucking pearl earrings, so shut your trap. Okay? Second of all, Rose, who are you giving that sapphire necklace to? There's a lot of questions.
Lauren
Maybe Gunilla!
Sarah
Hahahahahaha, oh my god. So yeah, anyway, there's a lot to work with here. And you're right -- it's like this whole -- I don't know, it's something about the dead father, like, what Kirsten is dealing with but also like, you're lucky you're getting anything, girl. This is not supposed to be like -- like it's not a guarantee, you privileged fool.
Lauren 16:49
Yeah, but like her whole tone changes.
Sarah 16:53
Oh yeah, it definitely does. And you know her enunciating accent. "Mother." She calls her mother all the time. It's terrible.
Lauren 17:04
So weird. So Rose's decision to lie about Charlie. So first of all, so I wanted to address that I thought Charlie had died while -- KIrsten doesn't seem to have been young enough to been fed all of these lies about how her father was super rich and successful. So I mean fact-check there. But, that aside, it does line up with Rose's sort of need to preserve everything and protect everything, because as we've seen before, you know, she goes to damaging lengths to protect herself and the people she loves and, you know, it makes sense that she would do that to protect the memory of Charlie. But you know, the lies she's telling about Charlie are hurting Charlie!
Sarah 17:53
Oh, my God, that whole scene where, you know, she realizes that 'he works very, very hard and he's very very rich.' Which also, by the way, there is fun little easter egg that I learned from that awesome Jim Colucci book that I've mentioned before. There is a YouTube outtake where that girl was, you know -- she is a child actress so she couldn't be in every scene, and they're just like kind of doing a run-through with a standard of, like, the PA, like the 20-something PA or something like that is sitting in for her reading the lines. And Betty White just, like, takes all the makeup and goes crazy on his face -- just takes a powder puff and like, he's bald and he's you know, she does this whole thing. It's pretty great. But anyway, that whole scene where she's like, 'His name is Robert. He lives in a castle.' Also like something I could not relate to. I'm like, damn it, girl. You don't even want to go to space camp. And now all you're doing is like playing with Grandma's like dress up stuff in her massive, massive bedroom, as we've mentioned before, But I do like how Betty White plays that scene. And she has the realization of just like, okay, like I can't I can't be doing this. You know, the obvious timeline issues be damned, in terms of the ages of granddaughter and daughter. But whatever. It is a sweet moment. And actually I do like that scene as part of the decision that Rose makes to reveal the amazing truth that comes through in this episode.
Lauren 19:23
Yeah, and I think also Rose -- Like it is a bit silly, obviously. But I think her intention is that she wants Kirsten to have this great picture of her father. But I think also she wants Kirsten to, like, understand that Rose is okay financially, or better than okay. She wants Kirsten -- before this whole thing happens, I guess -- to believe that she's wealthier than she is or something.
Sarah 19:55
Well, I think just maybe -- maybe just well off, like she doesn't want her to worry about her. Even though it's very clear that like, Rose, you know, there's a concern there, right? Like she's not exactly flush.
Lauren 20:07
Yeah, exactly, which I think does -- it's kind of ridiculous that she would lie about several other things. But I do think that makes sense. I think there's the degree to which parents hide financial things from their kids their whole lives. But you know, it's definitely interesting to see that that carries into adulthood as, like, a bigger takeaway. And you mentioned this before, but Dorothy and Sophia, sharing a bed is always really funny. So great.
Sarah 20:35
It's the best. I mean, it's it's one of my favorite them-sharing-a-bed scenes, where they're so irritating each other, and Sophia goes, 'if I didn't wake up tomorrow, you'd never forgive yourself' and Dorothy just goes, 'I'll risk it.' I think about that line all of the time. I think about that line, like, if me and my husband have had a bad day, and like we're not we're not ever getting in like knockdown, drag-out type of fights that we're like, 'forget it, let's go to bed angry' or something like that. But it's just like, anything left unfinished, right? It's just like, sort of sometimes it does enter your mind and you're just like, 'is this how we're gonna leave it?' And I don't know, I don't know if I just have some sort of fatalistic thing in my brain where a lot of times, I don't know, it helps me live for the moment and for the day, but occasionally it does backfire where you're just like, 'all right, should we wrap things up here?' 'I'll risk it.' I think it's just fantastic. Especially with the way, again, the way that the two actresses deliver it, they're really getting into a great relationship. It's perfect.
Lauren 21:41
Yeah, and Dorothy is being super obnoxious. She's like fluffing her pillow but banging it -- it's really crazy. But then Rose comes in, right? And then we have Rose and Dorothy sharing a bed. And this is also really funny, because I think this is also very relatable, you know, like in a relationship or anything where Rose is kind of just like going off on this crazy like, self-discovery, you know she's basically talking to herself.
Sarah 22:05
She's just narrating to herself. Yeah, yeah, exactly. She also says 'I love you' to Dorothy at the end, which I think is very sweet!
Lauren 22:13
God I thought you'd never shut up!
Sarah 22:18
But I think that part with Rose, actually, I think that's like one of the first times we hear a true 'I love you,' like not from a Sophia/Dorothy perspective, but to the friends. I think it's great. But yeah, you're right. It totally rings true with like, anybody you're sharing a bed with. And especially when you're sharing a bed with someone who's not your partner or, like, it's like a sleepover situation, or it's like something out of the out of the ordinary. You're just like, oh my god, like I'm done. I'm done talking now. We're like finished.
Lauren 22:44
I'm sleepy!
Sarah 22:45
I think actually happens a lot when you have twin beds in a hotel or something. And everybody's, like, talking across and you're like, okay, I thought we were done hanging out tonight. It's pretty fantastic. But yeah, like Sophia's whole thing, like she says, 'It's like having two size 9 fudggicles.' I also love that she says 'fudggicles' in her back, not 'fudge-siccles.' Fantastic. Yeah, I mean, seriously, the Sophia/Dorothy sharing-a-bed are some of my favorite scenes in the entire series.
Lauren 23:16
Yeah. And it is nice to see the Sophia/Dorothy thing is really funny but also Sophia, like, getting up and being like, 'goodbye, I'm going', like going back to her own bed when Rose comes. But it's a real moment.
Sarah 23:30
Perfect timing because they're all up at night at the same time.
Lauren 23:34
But it's it's a real moment of power, I think, for Rose to talk herself through this thing and come to the conclusion that she has to tell Kirsten the truth about Charlie -- which, again, like you said with how Blanche says, like, 'Charlie was a nice guy,' like there's no big reveal here.
Sarah 23:53
'That's the big secret?' She's so bummed. It's great.
Lauren 23:59
But you know, it's nice to see Rose, who, I think, the word 'weak' isn't exactly applicable. But I think she's, you know, she's sensitive and she's working through it. So it's nice to see her come to a place where, like, she has this reckoning of, I need to tell her the truth, and also, I mean, it does take a bit of a weird turn when she's like, 'then you just have a snowman built of lies.' It's like, this is so dramatic.
Sarah 24:27
I know. Exactly. I don't think Rose is ever weak. I mean, she's like she's demure sometimes, right? She's innocent, like there's there's a lot to her. But yeah, I think the line I'm thinking of when you say how how she does sort of take charge in this moment, where she's like, 'mother, there is nothing to discuss.' I'm sorry, everytime Kirsten calls her 'mother,' I'm like, get the fuck out of here. 'Um, mother, there's nothing to discuss.' / 'Oh, yes, there is!' Like that tone that she uses? It's like the whole, 'I mean business and I've really thought this through' and yada yada yada, so. It's great. I think it's good. Um, again, kinda weak premise, kind of weird, but for me it really works, and, again, the whole like Blanche loving drama in the background.
Lauren
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I talked about this earlier, but I just love the final scene -- or one of the final scenes -- when Rose is going to tell Kirsten, and Blanche doesn't even look at Dorothy. She's like, 'bye Dorothy' and she's just so focused on the drama, which I relate to, obviously.
Sarah
Oh my gosh, awesome. Well, 'the truth will out.' It has. All right, well join us next time when we discuss what it says about a person when they build their life around Miami Vice.
Lauren 25:48
As opposed to building your life around the Golden Girls, which is totally cool!
Sarah 25:54
Absolutely. See you then!
FIN